Re: Whips and weapons

Yep. That's what I have in my "The Whip, the Weapon" video. Some folks are strange, aren't they  smile


I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...


Re: Whips and weapons

Ha ha a very good video Robby, nicely demonstrated with a sense of humor. I liked the western scene.


Re: Whips and weapons

Thank you, Don. We had a lot of fun, shooting that sequence ????


I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...


Re: Whips and weapons

Here's my opinion on this topic...

If your opponent isn't filled with rage, a whip could be a good deterrent. I mean, if he still has his wits (and is a little ignorant w/ street fighting) he would be too afraid to go in the "circle of pain" (the whip's reach). So you could probably keep him at bay with well placed cracks.

But, yeah, any opponent wise enough to just run straight at you will have the upper hand. All you can actually do with a whip is use it as a club, but that's gonna be hard if the guy has a choke-hold on you. Honestly, it takes time to swing the whip fast enough if a person is running at you. By the time you are able to do your down swing, you'd probably be at the ground getting beaten to a pulp.

Best weapon for CQB encounters... a pen! The pen is mightier than the sword, right?


Re: Whips and weapons

it is if you this guy



Re: Whips and weapons

Robert Gage wrote:

Roy, I think that's one of the strongest examples we've heard yet of Robby's theme song, 'A Whip is not a Weapon'. Thanks for posting!

No problem Mr Robert, I figured this opinion needed some real world experience to back it up. The only way it would work is if the person on the receiving end were to cower down and take the punishment. A simple step in any direction will render the whip useless.

He died for me, I'll live for him


Re: Whips and weapons


Thank you for that great example, Roy. Theory is one thing. Practical experience is a complete different story.

In my opinion and experience, all these romantic fantasies about defending oneself with a whip, an umbrella, a walking stick, a paper towel... come from people feeling insecure. They seek to have something that gives them a feeling of safety. To "be" safe. It's like the magical feather in Disney's "Dumbo". Little Dumbo was able to fly, but he didn't trust in himself. The magical feather gave him self convidence.

And those folks who say "This or that is a perfect weapon for self defense" are in reality insecure. Nothing else. They hold onto their own magical feather. If one is self reliant, he does not need gimmicks. If someone is not, he will be completely devastated when he realizes that the magical feather is nothing more than - a feather.


I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...


Re: Whips and weapons

Robby, you are absolutely right! That's the whole thing in a nutshell!  smile

'Less is often more!'


Re: Whips and weapons

I have a perfect weapon for self defense. It's inside my cranium, I carry it around everywhere. It can also do math.

- Pokkis


Re: Whips and weapons

Pokkis, this, too, is profoundly wise! It's odd how often people seem to leave this exceedingly useful piece of equipment out of the equation!  smile

'Less is often more!'


Re: Whips and weapons

Robby Amper wrote:

.In my opinion and experience, all these romantic fantasies about defending oneself with a whip, an umbrella, a walking stick, a paper towel... come from people feeling insecure. They seek to have something that gives them a feeling of safety. To "be" safe. It's like the magical feather in Disney's "Dumbo". Little Dumbo was able to fly, but he didn't trust in himself. The magical feather gave him self convidence.

This!  This hits the nail right on the head.

I think in many ways this sentiment also applies to people who want to have a concealed carry permit to carry a firearm.

Their argument is that they will be able to STOP CRIME!!!

The reality is:  Most of us will never be in a situation where having a concealed gun would be a benefit.  Most of us do not have the training to know how to effectively draw a gun from concealment without shooting ourselves in the foot when adrenaline makes everything more difficult.  Most of us don't train at the range enough to do more than spray bullets and hope for the best.

Don't get me wrong, here.  I own guns.  I have nothing against them.

But I feel like people who want to have a CCW license really just want a security blanket. They want to FEEL like a hero, even though they will never be one.

I also feel like the "this is the perfect weapon" mentality feeds into the notion of the quick fix that so many people seem obsessed with.  The "I don't need years of training so long as I can learn a few whip cracks" mentality.


Re: Whips and weapons

Not all true Robert, being the hero has nothing to do with why myself and most of my family and friends carry with a permit. No I don't ever want to have to use it, but its better to have it and never need it than it is to need it but not have it. The police take minutes to respond while it only takes a lunatic seconds to commit mass murder. There are instances where a citizen with a CCW could have changed awful outcomes.

He died for me, I'll live for him


Re: Whips and weapons

When Finland had two school shootings a while ago, the loud part of the public opinion was pretty much split in two. One side wanted to ban all firearms, one side wanted to legalize concealed carry for pretty much everyone. I'm not really a big fan of the idea of banning them, since I know most people have enough brain to use them responsibly, but the other side's opinion made me laugh at the twisted and macabre scenarios that came to mind.

Think about this. A school, full of people of which an arbitrary 50% own and carry a handgun, gets attacked by a pistol wielding kid who read Nietzsche too much too young. At the first sign of trouble, there's an announcement over the school's PA system that a student with a handgun is on a violent rampage. What then? Well, the 50% of people draw their guns and start with their hero trips. Now everyone who is holding a gun goes searching for the attacker who is holding a gun. Everyone not holding a gun know that in a school with, say, 200 gun wielding people there's a murderer on the loose. Description: is holding a gun. How exactly would this scenario develop into anything other than a total clusterfuck? And when the police arrive, what are they supposed to do? If I were a cop in a situation like that, all Kevlar in the world wouldn't make me comfortable enough to go in and start barking orders. And after the situation has ended? The forensics team has to pick up a bucketful of shell casings, excavate the walls for bullets fired from who knows how many different guns and try to make any sense of what happened. Oh, the joy of protecting and serving.

So... Yeah, if all that were a movie, I would totally laugh myself silly. But real life? Not so much. Being surrounded by untrained civilians carrying loaded handguns is the antithesis of a safe environment in my mind.

The same goes for all other weapons some people carry around "just in case". Like Robby said, it's just Dumbo and the feather. Except the small detail that Dumbo didn't kill, maim, cripple or otherwise hospitalize people when he decided to use his flight skill when it was not totally needed.

I really like having a brain.

- Pokkis


Re: Whips and weapons

Roy, that's a good point. But unfortunately it has downsides too. A citizen with a working set of brains and good situational awareness could indeed stop a bad thing from happening. The only problem is that -- at least from my slightly cynical point of view -- not nearly all people have those two things.

As much as it sounds like a cliche, holding something powerful makes many people think with their crotch area. Remember the last time you saw a "tough as nails" 20-year old doing a burnout in traffic lights because he saw it as a manly thing to do? Think about that hypothetical youngster carrying a concealed .357 in the same place where you are with your kids. That's the problem.

- Pokkis


Re: Whips and weapons

True Pokkis not everybody has the mental capacity, but that's why they don't just give those permits out to everybody. You have to prove that you are competent and responsible through written and tactical testing. We must know exactly when, where and how to utilize lethal self defense. That's why you don't read about horror stories like the one you described where 200 armed citizens are hunting down the bad guy and making the situation worse. Most law enforcement highly praise concealed carry because they will tell you that they are usually just the clean up crew after a horrible act.

He died for me, I'll live for him


Re: Whips and weapons

Also Pokkis, the first thing they let you know when starting the training process is that during the event you take a shot but miss the bad guy and hit an innocent bystander then you will be the one going to prison. So you have to be precisely sure of your target and its surroundings. Therefore people with permits are held with much responsibility

He died for me, I'll live for him


Re: Whips and weapons

I stand corrected, seems that I don't understand the CCW permit procedure that much.

I'm fairly comfortable with guns myself, but I'm also the one constantly reminding or even nagging about trigger discipline to everyone when shooting. Once I was helping my best friend test a rifle he himself had made, and when it was my turn to go patch the targets, I removed the bolt from the rifle and put it in my pocket before heading downrange and didn't even think about it. Of course I apologized afterwards, luckily he understood it was nothing personal. Just a habit. I trust weapons as they are only lifeless chunks of steel, wood and plastics. It's the people who make them dangerous.

- Pokkis


Re: Whips and weapons

I'll have to respectfully disagree about concealed carry by relating my own experiences.

I've been there.  I had a CCW for awhile.

And after awhile, I realized that I was doing nothing  but living in "what if" fear.  That I had this fantasy notion that at some point I'd be in the right place in the right time (or wrong, if you prefer), not freeze in the moment, and prove that a concealed weapon can save the day.

I was imagining scenarios that were either likely to never happen to me, or would happen so differently from what I imagine that there's no realistic way I can prepare for it.

The reality is, we have a lot of anecdotal evidence on either side that proves nothing.  Random tragic situations where someone *might* have helped (and, if we're being 100% honest, just as likely might not), or the very rare instances where someone with a gun happens to thwart some bad thing, thus making everyone else believe they will someday be that guy.

Statistically, the average person will not ever find themselves in a situation where a gun might save their lives.  When such things happen, they are the extreme exceptions, not a trend or likelihood.

I gave up carrying because I realized that every moment I had my gun concealed on me, I was acutely aware of it and of how it fostered the "I could be the next victim" outlook.  I have 32 years of martial arts training. I have actually defended myself successfully on a few occasions.  I am *NOT* a victim, and yet carrying a gun was putting me in that "crime could happen at ANY TIME" mindset, and it was not fun to live my life that way.

And this was all beside the inconvenience of the fact that it was simply legally impossible for me to carry my gun everywhere.  Many business and public spaces prohibit it.  And ironically, the exact places that refuse to allow CCW feel like the most opportune places for crime to strike (such as banks).

In other words, I'm legally allowed to carry a concealed gun in the exact places where crime is least likely.  It felt like choosing to wear my seatbelt when parked in the garage, but having to unbuckle it when driving.

The thing is, we tend to believe one thing, when the reality tends to be something completely different.

We see tragic events and think "someone with a gun could have stopped it," but that's with the benefit of hindsight.  The next tragic thing won't happen the same way as the last.

Shootings are messy. Any cop can tell you that.  It's not like the movies where someone pulls a gun and the "hero" makes one well placed shot and ends the situation.  Even the police will discharge their firearm MANY times, and just as often not even hit the suspect.

A gun is not a tidy solution.  And a situation where someone with a CCW will be able to "save the day" is more a mental exercise than a realistic notion.

The epiphany for me came when my apartment was broken into.

I thought I had done everything how you're supposed to. I lock my doors. I lock my windows.  I keep valuables locked up.  I have my gun in a quick access electronic safe near my bed so I can thwart that midnight burglar.

This is what you expect.  The perception.

The reality is that some guy will kick your door off its hinges at 11am, in broad daylight, when you're at work.

It's completely outside of what you prepare for.

When I asked the police what I could have done differently, their response?  Buy a dog.

Having said all of that, I certainly am NOT advocating for repealing CCW laws.

It's just that, like I said, I strongly believe it's much more security blanket than anything else.

It makes people feel like they will be able to control chaos, which simply isn't possible.


Re: Whips and weapons

That's a fine belief Robert, I'm not saying that its for everyone but as long as its legal its for me. I've pulled my weapon once and hope I never need to again but its there if the time comes. 6 years ago a man decided he wanted to take my car while my wife, 1 year old daughter and myself were parked outside a store in the city. I could replace the car but was not going to allow him to drive away with my daughter strapped in the back seat. The situation was stopped without having to fire a shot. These same situations happen every day but you don't hear or read about them because they don't make the news.

He died for me, I'll live for him


Re: Whips and weapons

Wow, Roy.  I'm glad you had a good outcome there.   How scary!

I think a lot of it is cultural where guns are concerned.  I grew up in a house with lots of guns.  and I do mean lots...  in the closet next to the boom, in every clothes closet, in my dad's office, in the kitchen next to the keys...  yes even a few in the gun safe.  I carry a little pistol in my purse and I have since I was 18.  I never even think about it unless one of my friends wants to borrow a lipstick or something and they ask about it... or if I get pulled over bu a cop and I have to tell him I have a weapon in the car.  The town I live in is small but I would conservatively estimate that 80% of the adult population carry.  And they aren't all concealed.  Most of the pickup trucks are fitted with gun racks across the back windows. 

My dad taught me respect for guns and how to hold them and carry them.  How to clean them and reload our own ammo.  It was kind of a necessity.  We hunted for food and we also had to protect the calves from bears and mountain lions.  I remember my dad showing us how to take out the screen in our bedroom window and how to use the window as a dead rest.  All growing up, my day would do "drills". There you would be just doing home work or asleep in bed and he would jump in the room and say he has set up a target and GO!  The drills were timed and judged on accuracy and more than one shot was a bad thing.  (that was to train us for bears by the way)  I almost think it is more strange when people don't know how to shoot.

Roy is right, they don't just give away permits.  You have to pay a lot of money to take a class that is several months long and then you have to pay to take the written and shooting tests and pass them.  Then you have to pay to get the license as well as keep up your training hours over the years.  The rules are slightly different from state to state