Whips and weapons (Page 3 of 6)

Some folks I know train that way. Not trying to imply that I explicitly endorse it. Latigo y Daga methods, yeah, I can see that, even just as an exercise in dexterity. It's kind of a moot point anyway, the only time I'm going to have a whip on me is when I'm going somewhere to show somebody my work.

Fritz, I'm with you 100% on this! 

Sorry for the double-post. I just had something to add to my earlier response.

I also very highly doubt Mr. Hero's story. I wasn't there, so I can't say for certain, but it sounds like a bar story to me. Something for the boys, so you can make yourself out to be some kind of tough guy. Also, are there even many boars where he lives? That doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would encounter very often.

I am wearing my skeptical face right now.

It does scare some stray dogs in out neighborhood when walking at night. Especially those pack of strays near our block who snarl and bark at people who pass by.

But for some reason, cats aren't scared by it. They actually try to chase after the cracker. Hahaha!

Wild boar? Sure, whatever

This "whips are weapons" thesis has been on for an eternity, and will probably be for a long time. I dislike it for just the same reason as Fritz. It creates bad reputation, and whipcracking gets you enough weird looks as it is already.

I'm not a fighter myself, but do have a philosophy to follow if there ever comes a situation I have no choice but to fight: Everything is a weapon. By that I mean it's possible to use everything not bolted down as a weapon, all you need is to make it an extension of your hand. Just look around and count everything you could use to end a violent argument if you chose to do so.

And now the actual point. Take all the things you counted, and really think if you could say "I'd rather choose a whip" at any of them. I know there are people who could take me down with a chopstick if I were wielding a sword, but even that hypothetical chopstick ninja would rather use a sword, baseball bat, knife, beer bottle or just about anything non-chopsticky if he had a choice.

Everything is a weapon as soon as you decide to use it as such. But I just cannot think of a situation where a whip could be seen as the best option of things you can pick up and hospitalize people with.

- Pokkis

As to banning all potential weapons, just think what damage an aggressive person might do with an ordinary fork from the dinner table! Should forks be banned forthwith, lest they fall into the wrong hands?   

Robby, I think that also has lots to do with the fighters. Think about it. An experienced MMA fighter is more of a street brawler than a martial arts master, and that's really what counts there. The martial arts master has trained himself in self control and discipline that just won't turn off whenever there's violence involved.

I've never been into violence, but I've seen it enough to say that it never looks cool like it does in movies. Real fights are boring and not grand displays of flashy, jump-kicky kungfu coreographies. In fact even the most ridiculous fight scenes in Gymkata aren't the least bit more outlandish and stupid compared to real life than the coolest Jet Li movies you've seen. Yet more reasons for me to believe in my "everything is a weapon" thesis so that a beer bottle, screwdriver, car antenna or fire extinguisher would be way above a whip on anyone's list of things to pick up when shit gets serious.

And with the fights I've seen? A whip would have done a great job in pissing off the angry guy with not much to lose, and that's about it.

(Oh, and if you haven't seen Gymkata, you should absolutely watch it

- Pokkis

One of the best bad movies ever. You're welcome

- Pokkis

I don't remember if I've told this story before, but we do an exercise in Hapkido class.

Everyone participates.  Even the novice students.

The exercise works like this:  One person stands across the room. He or she is the defender.  That person is armed with a paintball gun and dressed in white clothing.

On the other side of the room is the attacker, armed with a red marker (to simulate a knife).

The attacker gets to choose when to start. The defender must keep the gun holstered until the attacker is moving.  When ready, the attacker rushes across the room as fast as he or she can, with only one goal in mind:  To "cut" the defender as many times as possible before being shot.

It doesn't matter if the defender is the instructor of the class (who happens to be a former Marine and very good with firearms) or a complete novice white belt, the outcome is always one of two things...

1. Defender is dead, dead, DEAD! and the attacker is not (very often, not even "shot" one time).
2. Defender maybe is able to "kill" the attacker, but not before getting at least ONE serious cut in a potentially life-threatening location.

Never is the defender not seriously injured. No matter how many times we run this exercise, or how prepared the defender thinks they were.

That is using a gun for defense, the supposed "quintessential" self defense weapon.  We will also run this with knife against attacker.  Nothing against attacker.  Whatever variation and combination you feel like.

Outcome is always the same:  Someone rushes at you, experienced or not, and you're going to get hurt, experienced or not.

The only two variables that ever make any difference is either to take the exercise outside, where the defender has more options to get out of the way (i.e., run), allowing him or her to try to get back at least some tactical advantage, or to have a third party say "go" to start the exercise (giving the defender a slightly better reaction time, but this second option only ever made a very small difference -- the defender still almost always gets "hurt").

The moral of the story? Guns, knives, fists, baseball bats, chairs, even whips... if you are in a "use what you've got" situation, these are all merely potential tools. None of them are "perfect."

There is only ONE perfect weapon and that is TIME.

Whether you're an experienced fighter able to assess and react quickly, or whether you can control distance, time -- time to react, to defend, to attack -- is what matters.

In your example, Robby, and in our class exercise, it is always the attacker (or more aggressive person) who has the advantage because they control the time by rushing in so fast.

All of the fancy cracking, body wraps, entanglements, etc., in the world won't matter one bit if you've got an aggressive opponent willing to take a hit to get to you.  This is my frustration when I see all of the "whip is a perfect weapon" videos, because they always assume a passive attacker, which is how you train when LEARNING techniques, but not how you train when actually practicing to defend yourself.