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Topic: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

I was conflicted whether to post this to Advice and ideas or "of interest" thread. Anyway, youtube pinged this to when I woke up this morning so I watched it... only 4 min long. I already have some opinions on a few specific points he mentioned based on other videos and rummaging through the archives here. He advises on not using 2 plaited bellies for a bullwhip due to plaiting coming loose and says nylon only gets tighter not looser? This was interesting to me anyway. Second thing is the minimal approach he takes to binding transitions. Just about every resource I have seen from Robby to Ron Edwards says to bind, and bolster in some cases, tightly. The most curious part to me is, we all know the vast number of high end whips he has handled in his lifetime, and whips he has made for other people. Is Adam ahead of the curve and knows something we don't, or is this all based on what seems to be his singular desire for faster whips, and whips catered to 2 handed routine work that he is imposing on us? Granted he would be an idiot to reveal all of his secrets, which is why we will never see a complete build video...interesting nonetheless. Full disclosure, there is also a heel knot video I am going to attempt to copy becuase it looks like it works better for smaller knots, as I have a tendancy to make too bulky of a knot foundation. Anyway, here's the video and I'm done pontificating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCoPiE-2gWU

“Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s.” ~Billy Wilder

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

I watched that same video today and i had same tought!

When i make my whips they are sticks but after wax bath they become much more flexible not stiffer. No sing of anything getting tighter.

I think there is only one way to find out for sure and that is to make whip that way.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Jyri, I agree! I will certainly try this first before just disagreeing. For me, I notice paracord does shrink a little when wet with bracelets I have made in the past, but nylon also has quite a bit of stretch (I've seen up to 40%). Of course we will never put that much linear stress on a whip, but the force exerted after a lifetime of cracking will surely negate any tightening that might have happened on day 1 of waxing, or even putting in hotwater. In this case, we are back to tight binding. The argument I could see is when Tyler was using dacron, which is polyester and has minimal stretch (mayb 5%). Some cord even has a polyester mix, which really is a brain twister. It will be interesting to do some side by side comparisons for sure.

“Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s.” ~Billy Wilder

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Adam Winrich, so this post is not totally with out bias. 

I think it's just his own personal preference for his singular style cracking.

If his method of building a whip was better, then the majority of whip makers would have adopted that methodology a long time ago.

I can't speak about leather whips because I have never tried one.

But his idea of nylon whips getting tighter..... that's kind of out there.
If they get tighter it would be towards the end of the whip due to centrifugal force. In doing so, I believe, it would have to loosen up towards the handle.

Loose plaiting will only result with a floppy whip which needs a lot of energy to crack.
It would take a lot more energy or force to make it crack.
This does, however, fit his "over muscling the whip" style of cracking.

I would have posted this in "of interest" because I would never advise anyone to use this style of making a whip to anyone. Keep in mind he also shows people how to make a whip out of rope, ball chain core and tape.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Ron

It's ok if you disagree with me.
I can't force you to be right.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

I agree with Ron even though I have never build a whip myself. I have been cracking the same two nylon whips on almost daily basis, and the ony thing that happend is, that one of them has become slightly more open at the fall hitch. Not much, just a little.

The flow is still fine and they both behave like when they was new (after cracking in). As the whips are made of a member of this forum I guess, that binding i a big part of the long time performance of the whips.

I have also owned a whip without binding - and it got looser almost from the first crack until it was totally useless.

That was 2 cents from me.

Today is a good day

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

My opinion, and fact if you crack a few different type of whips:

-absolutely for fast style whip cracking. 

-core strands with filler strands (guts) still in cords, no.  It gets wet those will shrink...

-no core strands in the 4 plait tip.... No.


This is definitely a style for shorter term fast cracking.

Inch by inch.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

And I have fixed 30+ year old nylon cow whips that have no binding and have plaited bellies.  The key is the twisted taper core in them which provides a solid base to plait over. 

Plaited bellies are just fine.

Inch by inch.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Rachel, wouldn't it be different for different whips too? He's specifically referring to bullwhips, which you want a solid transition. Cow whips, PH whips, and stock whips being different due to the nature of their build right? Actually, we already know how he does or did make stock whips from Nick's video too, and its about the same with a core build (6 "stacked" staggered cords)

“Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s.” ~Billy Wilder

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Each to their own, if it works for him.  I mainly mean there is indeed nothing wrong with a plaited belly or two.  Good solid base to plait on, whatever the style of whip... Whatever needed to acheive that is just fine as long as it is quality material.

I only mean I disagree with no transition binding on a bull whip, unless you just want that fast cracking.... That's absolutely up to the buyer and maker. 

I fully and strongly disagree with not gutting the cord for core strands.  And not plaiting around SOMETHING at the tip in a 4 plait.  I strongly disagree with that.  Giant rubber band... Like an accordion folding up and stretching out.

Inch by inch.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Collin, I dont bind my stockwhips but any other whip gets full binding to every single layer.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

I've actually put binding on every whip so far...maybe I shouldn't? lol Snake whips get less than bullwhips, and stock whips even less, but the 3 stock whips I've done all have a little bit...maybe not even enough to add rigidity, but I did figure it might help flow and prevent kinks where the core ends. After starting with bullwhips, it was too weird not to add some sort of binding.

“Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s.” ~Billy Wilder

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Collin, binding is good! It increases control no end.... (I think Adam Winrich isn't interested in control - only in noise.)

'Less is often more!'

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Robert Gage wrote:

Collin, binding is good! (I think Adam Winrich isn't interested in control - only in noise.)

Bingo.

I would add, speed.

Ron

It's ok if you disagree with me.
I can't force you to be right.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Indeed, Ron! But neither has much to do with finesse....

'Less is often more!'

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Maybe his whips made like that are good, but the question is for how long?

The way i see it, if you are going to make a whip, or anything, do it once and make it well.

Binding whips makes them better so why not make that invesment, all it cost is some binding material and elbow grease.

Making customer happy for few weeks is one way, making customer happy for years is the hard and right thing.

And keep in mind that i have no expierence of his work so i'm not able to say what his whips are in reality, but not doing something to make product last longer does not seem good in my eye.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Think of braiding this way. A chinese finger trap, when stretched, will "tighten" on the "core" (ie. your fingers), but will "loosen" or "stretch" longitudinally. In other words, sure, nylon will tighten over use....on the core. But that means nothing - because of the longer longitudinal length, it's more flexible that way. Then again, that's relevant to both nylon and leather whips.

Either way, it's hard for me to see that happening in experience. All my whips have loosened a bit after some use, never tightened. Maybe loose plaiting with no tightening gets "tighter" as in not much tighter?

In terms of his bolster, technically it's not secured at a perpendicular to the core, so the core can still separate and slide out from under it, so it's no better than braiding. In fact, braiding is better, since it's tighter around that core and holding it on.

Finally, the reason that binding is needed (essentially) is to prevent the strands nearest the handle from fray/being cut due to friction of use. I don't think he's got that issue because he doesn't plait tight at all, so essentially he's making a floppy rope, and so I don't think the strands are tight enough to actually cause this damage.

At least, these are some of my thoughts on that video...

Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Sparky, spot on.
He sold the pair for $400. If these had been made by a reputable whip maker that's about right or maybe, for others, a little low, but for his quality of whip, that's way too high.

Ron

It's ok if you disagree with me.
I can't force you to be right.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Well, if nylon only gets tighter with use, all of you guys with blisters on your fingers from plaiting can stop pulling so hard...

I'll give it a try, Dad, but it's going to be really hard...kind of like trying to saw something in half using a banana.

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

Scott lol

Overall I like Adam, but not for his whipmaking methods.

I have made two thongs based on nick's latest video which is in turn based on Adam's stockwhips build plans, and while I agree that the strands don't tighten, I've found that before waxing the thong is soft and malleable (at least on my first one, the second thong I plaited tight like I normally would) and after waxing it is as hard as any other of my whips. Which I attribute to the wax filling all the space inside the thong, if you get what I mean.   
And yes his prices are quite high for the time it takes to make one. It takes almost half to a third of the time to make a thong using his methods than using the ones I've learned here. Anyway, if it works for him, great! Though I agree with Rachel on the binding and 4 plaiting over nothing.

Collin, for me I bind snakewhips the most, as they don't have a solid handle.

Keep your eyes on the stars, but remember to keep your feet on the ground.
– Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: New Adam Winrich Video (interesting)

No binding?  No thanks!  I need my binding. Whenever I try to go light on bindings in the last layers because I think I bound to much in the previous layers I always end up with disaster.  Stiff at first but floppy at the transition after some use.

If I can't run fast, I'll make slow look impressive.
"By the power of ibuprofen!"