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Topic: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

I wanted to prevent the whole thing from becoming a problem for the reputation of HolyOak whips. But Dan Trout and Ron Lew thought that it is a good idea to spread it all over Facebook... Dan Trout posted some things over at Facebook and now he does not remember. The harm is done. The story is out now. Wasn't me.

Anyway - here we go.


Robert Amper

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Well damn.  Me too.

Inch by inch.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

I see it the same way like you, Rachel. The whole thing was only known and visible to a very limited amount of people. But thanks to Mr. Daniel Trout, it's on Facebook, now. He ordered me to remove his banner from the WB links page - which immerdiately happened - and started a wildfire. I already messaged him that his banner is gone from the WB link page and I told him to remember that he could have done severe damage to the reputation of Bobbi HolyOak.

What makes me wonder is the fact, that he offered all customers of HolyOak whips, that they should contact him in case that they want to sell their whips (from HolyOak whips). He will gladly buy them, because he always needs whips for his "Students". On his website he clearly states:

(Quote)
...I have had the opportunity to train with one of the fetish communities leading authorities on the bullwhip.  I can teach you how to control the whip so that you can induce pain or light sensation.
(End Quote)


That does not look family friendly to me. Probably he wants to have more attention in the BDSM scene, who knows? And all that would be a good opportunity to buy used whips from people, he made doubting the whips, they bought from Bobbi HolyOak. A good chance to buy whips for a way lower price. Not fair to Bobbi HolyOak, but good for his own business. I don't know.


Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Who the frak is Daniel Trout?
I've never heard of him before this.

It sounds like he wants to buy her whips and resell them at a profit, along with "lessons".

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

I now know he's closely connected personally to Bobbi from her FB postings about combatcon.

I just looked it up.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

This sounds so strange to me. Bobbi's name was not mentioned very pronounced in any way in the thread.
Now, this guy comes around, saying how he stands for Bobbi's quality, yet the wants the name of HolyOak to be profoundly linked to this thread.
Is there something I'm not getting?

Sven

-Junior, I didn't know you could fly a plane?
-Fly yes..., land no.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Sven, he is supposed to be a good friend of hers, but he risks damaging her brand by highlighting and bringing to attention the controversy he is creating his own self.
I don't get it either.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Apparently, I've missed quite a bit today.  Let me see if I've got this right - Mr. Trout purports to be defending Mrs. Holyoak, yet he demands that her name be attached to the thread in which her workmanship is, quite literally, torn apart?  He either has an ulterior motive or, what is it you guys down South say? Oh, yeah:

"Well bless his heart..."

If you drop the baby, fake a seizure...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Scott, there ya go.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

He might be disguising his true nature. Some people will go lengths to get what they want.

I don't know mr. Trout so I cannot judge him. I can only hope he has his heart in the right place and will do no harm to ms. HolyOak.

I know she's been a member of the Ring and her building qualities have not been up to standard, but things can still change for the better. As long a her name is not dragged through the mud.

My father always says, a bad name is easy to get, but hard to lose.

Sven

-Junior, I didn't know you could fly a plane?
-Fly yes..., land no.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

This has been gnawing at me since last night.  If Mr. Trout does not want a link to his site to appear on Whip Basics (or anywhere else for that matter), I don't have a problem with a simple request to remove the same.  It is, after all, his business and he remains free to make decisions about which other entities his business may be associated (or have the perception of association, as in the case of a link). 

With that said, he has no right whatsoever to demand, much less even request, that we change anything on this site/forum.  This is especially true in the case that the item he wishes to have changed does not specifically relate to him and/or his business.  Such is the case that we have here. 

Robby, you and the other members have created a close, tight-knit community at Whip Basics and much effort has gone into keeping the wrong people out in order to protect what has been created here.  I, for one, don't understand why we would abdicate any control over this forum to someone on the outside.  In my personal opinion, this is a dangerous precedent to set.

Furthermore, even though I am a member here (albeit a relatively new one) I wouldn't expect anyone in this forum to acquiesce to my demands, except with respect to the longstanding rule to treat each other with respect and civility.  It goes without saying, however, that this rarely (if ever) happens because of the character of those persons who are members here.  I most certainly wouldn't go to some other site and think that they would entertain my demands for a single second.

If you drop the baby, fake a seizure...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Scott, I'm optimistic that once he gets all the facts of what happened and did not happen he will change his mind. Who knows how much extra damage he did to Bobbi. She's a good person with a lot on her plate. Yes, she did this to herself by cutting corners on a whip(s) , but she could , in time , repair this damage. Now it's going to be much more difficult to rebuild confidence in the whips she makes.

Some sort of apology or retraction would be nice but I don't foresee that coming at all.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Ron, I'm simply saying that, whatever Mr. Trout's motives or dealings with Mrs. Holyoak may be, we don't need to be a part of it.  No one here is trying to harm HolyOak Whips in any way.  In fact, I think quite the opposite has been the case.  Until now, this entire incident hasn't been publicized outside of our membership.  If you recall, the long post I made regarding the Ring of Trust and the actions of its members didn't even identify the whip maker involved.  That whole portion of the story was only included as it was necessary to lay the foundation for the story I needed to tell - how well the RoT members had taken care of a customer.

With that said, however, it should be noted that no one here is trying to hide the facts either.  There was a problem with one whip.  That problem was (and is) well documented.  No one (at least to my knowledge) has said that every HolyOak Whip is constructed in this manner, nor has anyone even said that most are.  Robby has told me personally (and I believe has said publicly) that the benefit of the doubt is always given to the whip maker.  In this single case, however, that was just not possible based upon the facts and evidence available. 

Every Ring of Trust member that I have spoken with on the matter, has said that they hope Mrs. Holyoak is able to move forward from this and return to the level of quality that she is certainly capable of producing.  As a former customer of hers, I wouldn't even consider purchasing another whip from her until she confronts the issue head-on, accepts responsibility for her actions, and makes it right with any customer who has been so wronged.  To date, I haven't seen that happen.  All I've seen are excuses.  Mrs. Holyoak has made no attempt to make things right, but the Ring of Trust did.

If you drop the baby, fake a seizure...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

You are right, Scott...it may be best to step aside an let this guy do whatever and leave the thread as is...

If you fall, I'll be there.
                            ~Floor

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Jessie, I quite agree. Just let him deal with what he's done....

'Less is often more!'

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

He's not stopping, he reposted on The Whip Community, And Ron Lew has reposted as well.

If you fall, I'll be there.
                            ~Floor

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

I would just let him hang himself with the rope he's making.
Any more commenting would serve no good purpose.
We are better than that. That's why we are WB.
I wish Bobbi well in trying to reverse what this guy is doing to her.
You can show facts to some but it appears that a wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse. None are so blind as those who choose not to see.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Well spoken Ron...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

smile  Nobody will ever have control over this forum. Except me and the admins. In this case it is only about the name of the thread. I was more than happy to do that, because that way everybody will find it even faster. The basic thing was this: We had the whole whip issue. Dan Trout explained to me that this was a whip for a child for "only" 50.00 USD. Well. If you make a whip for a child, charge more than 50.00 bucks or don't do it the way it was done. Dan Trout told me that the whip was heavily abused. That was the reason why it broke.


I thought it would be the best to keep the whole story here. I was not interested in spreading it over the whole internet. Because of the potential damage it could/would do to Bobbi. But... Dan Trout did not only post it on his Facebook page. He reposted it on other whip groups, too. And guess what - "GrandMaster" Ron Lew did the same. And that way the whole thing became a landslide. In the meantime I even don't care for that. This is not my or our problem. Sometimes it would be better to think about the consequences, before you push the big, red button. Right? Anyway - it is what it is. We have a whole lot more visitors/guests in this thread than ever. Thanks to Dan Trout and Ron Lew wink



But there is a thing, I don't like. Which I don't accept.
Dan Trout wrote me this:


I know that not one menber of the RoT ever contacted any of Bobbi's customers. And here is my question to Dan Trout:

Dan,

all other things aside - who contacted Bobbi's customers? That would be an absolutely No Go
and it would result in excluding the respective person. I've asked the RoT members and they
all say they never contacted any of Bobbi's customers.

That means, that somebody lies.

I know that a member of the WB forum, Morten (he's from Sweden) contacted a friend of his and recommended to him that he should ask what exactly is in the whip he was going to order. He is nor ever was a member of the RoT. When one friend recommends to another friend that he should ask for the exact specifications, that is there private thing and more than okay. You can read about that in the WB forum - it's in the public area, by the way.

So - please - name me the members of the RoT who contacted any customer of HolyOak whips.
As far as I know, they all have waiting lists. Long waiting lists. And each of them assured me that they did
not contact any of Bobbi's customers. And that leads me to the last, yet most important question:


How could members of the RoT have the contacts of Bobbi's customers?


Please understand that this is a huge and very serious accusation. I really hope - for you and for Bobbi - that you have names you can give me. And not something like: "I don't know. I was only told". Because if you don't have names, the whole thing becomes slander. And that is where the fun ends.

Names. Now. Please.

Thank you in advance,
Robby



It's like I wrote. When a friend talks to another friend and recommends to ask for this and/or that - it is a private conversation between friends. But when Bobbi HolyOak changes this to "Members of the WB Ring of Trust" contacted my customers", it is a lie. A serious accusation. And due to the fact, that Dan Trout got this information from Bobbi herself, she's involved in the whole thing.
Morten - you did nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing. At least Bobbi assured your friend, that his whip will be made according to the highest standards, right? No worries at all.


I don't think that there is much left to say. The story is all over the internet now. Wasn't me. The image damage that happened and will go on, was started by Bobbi herself and Dan Trout. The only thing I want now, are the names of the people who have been contacted by the members of the RoT. I know that this was a misunderstqnding. But before I post such a thing in public, I have to be darn sure about it. I'll keep you updated on this.


Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: HolyOak Whips Vol. II - Featuring MC Dan Trout and Ron Lew

Robby, I would not hold my breath waiting for a list or even one name from Mr. Trout.
He doesn't have one.

I still have a hard time believing that Bobbi is ok with this.

Yep, just let it ride and let him talk and spread lies and the more of a case you will have should you decide to take legal action against them. In the mean time, try to document what you can.

Ron

People who misuse the words burro and burrow, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.