The man, who made the bad situation public. Meet Daniel Trout :o) (Page 1 of 2)

Bobbi can't know what this person is doing.  What happened with the Ring of Trust is exactly what she used to describe would happen on her own website in great detail as a founder herself.  She should not expect any less.  To go and accuse the Ring of going out and hunting down customers to spread lies is absolutely ridiculous!  Where is THIS person's proof?  The customer is here that approached The Ring of Trust with his issue.  He wrote a calm and factual account of what happened with no mud slinging or slander.  No one hunted him down. 

The autopsy was done by a member of the Ring with no ties to Bobbi whatsoever and there are detailed photographs of exactly what was in the whip.  Period.  If that whip was taken apart and the autopsy showed a whip built as Bobbi stated it was built on her website, the failure would have been attributed to something else, and Robby and all of the Ring members would have made it very clear that it was no fault of Bobbi's.   It makes no difference who the whip maker is, if they are liked or not, if they are still a member here or not, The whip was built when Bobbi WAS a member of the Ring.  If the whip would have been built the way she claimed all of her whips were built on her website without tape or shrink tubing, the report would still be here, but everyone in the ring would have stood by Bobbi.  Unfortunately, as the photo documentation clearly shows, the whip did not fail because of abuse or misuse.  It failed because it was made using materials that have no business being in the whip. Materials that she, herself, says she does not ever use.   It is all right there, unbiased and photo documented with details describing how the Ring of Trust handled the customer to make him happy.  Period. 

Where is Mr Trout's proof for anything he has said?  I am positive that Bobbi has no idea what is going on.  If she did, she would put an end to this nonsense right now because she knows exactly what happened here and she knows that is exactly what was supposed to happen. 

What strikes me as even more ridiculous is the fact that Whip Basics has always conducted itself calmly.  This community is small because there is no desire for drama and sensationalism that the public seems to want so badly.  It's the people on the outside that make a point to stir up trouble where there is no trouble. Where this uninformed person feels is a justice to Bobbi, is doing nothing but lighting a match under a dead fire.  A fire that won't ruin Whip Basics, but poor Bobbi. 

What was a thread that was slowly getting buried  has now been brought to the surface and drawn attention to.  Not by Whip Basics members, but by Dan Trout. 

The thread could have been seen by a potential customer, and it would have been brought to Bobbi in conversation (because that's what civilized people do) and she, aware that there was a design flaw, could address it as she felt appropriate.  But no.  Now it is thrown in her face by the bucketloads, NOT BY WB MEMBERS, but by Dan Trout. Not only is he bringing attention to a mistake that was barely read and slowly getting buried in the archives, BUT his business serving the BDSM community might not be something a Spiritual Advisor, and Meditation and Martial Arts Expert wants to be known for.  Friend or not, she may not desire that kind of attention for her business. 

When going to war, usually the commander picks the soldiers they want to stand with them, not the other way around. 

He is no friend to Bobbi.  I hope if he reads anything from this entire thread, he reads this.  While noble in intent, there is nothing here in the forum that is a lie.  Slander is only slander if it has been published and it is untrue.  Everything said here in the forum is true, witnessed, and and can be proven.   Where is Dan's proof that a whip was sent to Germany and traded for something  else?  Where is his proof that Whip Basics members are contacting customers of Bobbi?  Please, if there is proof of this behavior, bring it forward, I will be the first member to publicly  apologize.  Spreading lies about people will not be tolerated here.

So Dan, if you are reading this, I BEG YOU, for the sake of Bobbi and her business, to think about what you say and do.  Bobbi, if you are reading please talk to this person and tell him what you already know.  You know how the Ring works.  You wrote all about it on your website when you were a member.  You were very proud to be a part of it and part of the concept in the first place.  The thread was a factual account.  It was unbiased, factual and fair.  It was not spoken about anywhere other than here and it was buried until today.   WB did not unbury it, but DAN TROUT did.  A man who thinks he knows what is going on, but has never even taken the time to read the story.  He fights for hearsay.  He is using Bobbi's design flaw to obtain whips, and he is starting a fight that would  have never went further than the archives of Whip Basics, until now thanks to HIM.

He won't put up the facts because he knows he is lying.  Classic behavior of someone who has no facts, is to deny the truth to be heard.

This fella simply needs to read the facts and see the whip autopsy, then he won't be running his mouth so much. Nobody here wishes bad luck on Bobbi. The facts were simply presented.

No worries Morten.
You didn't do anything wrong. You were just looking out for your friend.

Ron

Morten - no worries    You have every right to advice and/or recommend anything to a friend. I think that Bobbi told that to her friend - Dan Trout - and suddenly it was "The RT members contact Bobbi's customers". That is not only complete bullshit. It is a very bad and serious accusation. Again - Morten - no problem. You did exactly the right thing!

Robby

Sparky touched on what I was going to say, but how would we know who to contact?  Like we have a database of Bobbi's customers?  So the entire basis for this is seriously flawed!

Thanks again for this Robby. The proof is in the pudding and I just looked at many pictures of spoiled pudding! It is what it is..

The Truth!

I fail to understand why Mr Trout is making this fuss. The photos are unanswerable. The actions of the Ring of Trust - on record here - are impeccable. What does he hope to gain? Would it not be better to drop the whole thing?

Am 28.08.2017 um 03:29 schrieb Daniel Trout <mach1whips@gmail.com>:

Robby,

Thank you for your time in responding to this. 

First of all, I only requested that you remove the links and references to my site.  I have no idea what you are referring to in terms of "...As I demanded" in changing the title of any thread.  I have "demanded" nothing.   

ALSO, I never claimed the whip was sent to Germany for examination.  I never mentioned Rachel McCullough nor Wolf Tree Whips, though I read very clearly who did it.  I said nothing about that who did the examining, nor the situation which prompted the action taken  My statement was simply this:

"While I have no doubt that they wholeheartedly believe the information they present, I can assure you that what they think they know and the truth of the matter are two, VERY different things.
I have personally worked with Bobbi one-on-one, observing her whip-making techniques, and have begun my own exploration of whip making under her guidance, and I can say as a person who has trained with some of the finest whip artists around and has handled whips from some of the finest whipmakers in the world, that the accusations of poor craftsmanship are completely unfounded. I will address that further at a later date, but for the time being, I have a recommendation.

Don't accept the one-sided argument. Give the matter due diligence."

I urge you to contact Bobbi directly to discuss any type of doubts this may instill in you about their longevity, efficacy and construction and let HER address this misconception before sending your whip off to Germany for an exchange in some seemingly gracious "Ring of Trust" endeavor.

If at that point you decide to cancel an order, return a whip, or whatever you deem is best, DO SO THEN...

The statement of "Sending it to Germany" might as well have said "Send it to Abu Dhabi."  I don't know the process you use, nor as a non-member of Whip Basics do I really care to.  I was simply saying "Before you, a concerned owner of a HolyOak Whips bullwhip, do anything, talk to Bobbi..."

If you would like for me to publicly clarify these statements about "Sending a Whip to Germany," I will gladly do so as I can see how that statement could be misconstrued, especially by folks for whom English, (and especially the American Vernacular,) is a second language.

That stated, I myself attempt to follow considerable due diligence to report fact, and I appreciate your efforts to bring me up to speed on matters I may have not had all the information on.  With that honesty and dedication to fact as our common ground, let me tell you what I know.

The whip sent to Mz. McCullough for examination was a $50 children's whip.  It was made SPECIFICALLY for a child, not an adult.  I have recently handled a similar childs whip that was made by Mrs. HolyOak.  I found the craftsmanship to be superb and the handling second to none for what it was.   BUT it was a $50 children's whip.  It's was a GREAT little whip for a kid, but to expect it to have an identical performance and construction to one of her $300USD Valkyries is as ludicrous as expecting a $150USD Dell laptop to outperform a $2000USD high-end Alienware computer built for a serious gamer.

If this whip was represented to you as anything beyond being a children's whip, similar to the hatband whips, little snappers, or pocket whips that many whipmakers sell as novelties, then you have been mislead, and I genuinely hope that an artisan member of the Ring didn't sell their skill short making a replacement for it that would go for $300 USD retail because that is not fair to them or to the Ring itself.

The artificial sinew binding was not wrapped as tightly for that reason.  It was meant to be have good flexibility and flow for a child, not an adult.  Based upon the appearance of the core of the whip that Mz. McCollough received, it appears to me that an adult was over-muscling said whip. 

That however is pure conjecture on my part, admittedly.   

What is NOT conjecture, and what seems to be the whole knot of contention in the your post in Autopsy of a Whip is the "unknown purple material" that you have identified as shrink tubing.

This is an understandable misconception, and as the "Autopsy" was done several thousand miles from you, there was no way for you to closely examine the material, and there is no reason for Mz. McCullough to examine it beyond what you understandably assumed.

The purple material, (an untreated section of which sits here on my desk as I type this,) is indeed a proprietary heat-activated material that has a nylon webbing component as it's base.  It will not get brittle, it will not break down as the shrink-tubing for wiring harnesses will.

Beyond that, I know very little else about it, save that the particular diameters and lengths that Mrs. HolyOak uses in her whips were manufactured specifically for her needs.  It is not regularly commercially available.  As someone who has, as stated, worked directly with Bobbi in beginning my own exploration of whip making, I had the same questions and concerns that you had as I applied it to the core of the whip I was making.  The above was explained to me. 

The disconnection and apparent "cracking" in the material in the "Autopsy" photos look to me like an abuse issue by an adult, (as previously stated,) moreso that a construction issue.  However, that is certainly open to interpretation.  I do know that the material is used in all of the Valkyrie, DeLongis Alignment, Sonic Alignment, and Tibetan Wave bullwhips, and having just spent a weekend handling bullwhips owned by Ron Lew, Anthony Delongis, (for whom it is not unusual to be working with a whip for hours at a time every day of the week,) and other previous customers, (my own four HolyOak Whips included.)  Not a single one of those whips showed any signs at all of any physical breakdown or loss of flexibility.

And that is where we leave this.  The information is there.  The facts have been presented on both sides, and I feel we both were lacking some critical details here, so thank you for this productive exchange.

What we choose to accept and/or contest as facts are up to us individually and to Bobbi's customers.  I stand by my statements, and if you feel the need to bring lawyers into it, I can and will do nothing to stop you.  Nor will I let that deter me in my pursuit of facts, I believe we ultimately want the same thing here, and if you feel the need to pursue the matter legally, so be it. 

I also stand by my statements that if anyone in the Whip Basics Community, (you included,) feels that they want divest themselves of their HolyOak bullwhips, I will pay a fair price for them on the condition that they have not been misused or abused.  I don't offer it as a slight against you or your colleagues in the Ring of Trust.  I greatly respect the idea and the artisans that carry it forward.  I merely offer it as an alternative for them to chose from, as I personally feel in this instance you are mistaken.  But that is, again, not my decision nor place to make 

Thank you for your time, dedication, and civility in this matter.

Respectfully,

Dan