21

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Pretty much what Craig and I did. I'd finished Craig's whip just after Christmas (more or less) and just sat and waited for him to complete mine before sending.

Think for yourself, act for everyone.

22

Re: New rules for whip swaps

It's sad that such things are necessary, but we are not all what we appear to be online, sometimes.

23

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Robby, these rules seem to be very sensible. I'd love to do a swap with somebody, it would just be a matter of where I'd be sending it. Through external conversation, it would cost me about $130 to ship a whip to Australia. If I could do one in the $30 or less shipping charge, I'd be down. It's just cost of shipping to certain places would be slightly prohibitive.

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
          -Mark Twain

24

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Hmmm while I do like the idea of the insurance (deposit to the mediator) shipping twice may get slightly too high for some people hmm Still, if that's the only way we can keep things going, I'm for it.

Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

25

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I'm still sporting a bit of a headache, so I'm not quite wrapping my head around this thing, BUT...

Robby, I think I would like to discuss this with you one of these days.  I have concerns, though this may be one of those situations where those participating are forced to trust the other--hear me out, though. 

Maybe we need a rule that states that in order to participate in a swap, you have to be a full member for at least 1 year.  Both parties must have photographic evidence of the whips to be swapped when they are finished, a photo of them packaged to be shipped with the customs number (outside of the country) or tracking number (inside) published to the forum with the photos when the whip is sent. 

Maybe that.  I think being a dedicated, full member is first and foremost. It seems if we are going to lose someone here, it's within the first year.  Now I know, we've been burned before, but I think the one-year rule would mitigate a ton of problems.   

Discuss.

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

26

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I don't have a problem with a one year rule if that is what yall  decide on but, someone who has been a member for a year or two can back out just as fast as a new guy in some cases. It just depends on the person.

27

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Jessie - fully support the picture evidence idea - and if we want to keep the excitement up - then we could send a pic of the finished whip to one of the admins with the shipping label for verifikation

28

Re: New rules for whip swaps

It's less likely, Johnny.  We have had long timers screw up too.  David Cross and Taylor Jennings, for instance, but there have been far more newbies shaft a deal than vets.  Frankly, it's unavoidable, but the odds are more in the favor of a fair deal if you have to wait.  Ultimately, the boss will make the decision, but what's a year?  No time at all.  Plenty enough time to practice and give the best you can give, making the trade even more fair.

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

29

Re: New rules for whip swaps

To be honest - i would hate waiting another year for a whip swap - i would even be prepared to send my whip first and wait for the recipient to send their whip after if needed

30

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I still think if no whips are sent before both are finished that would do a lot to make a swap work. Pictures of  the finished whip for verification. Also a build thread would be mandatory.

Most times a person will not know how much a whip will cost to ship until they ship it, so paying up front for double the cost for shipping might be problematic.

A security deposit to a mediator would also prohibit some from participating. I know that it would surely prevent me from joining in because for many, like myself, they just don't have the extra cash to do that.

I know there has to be a way for it to be fair for every one but I sure don't know what that would be at this time.

Ron

It's ok if you disagree with me.
I can't force you to be right.

31

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I'm easy like Sunday morning. I will play by the rules whatever the rules end up being. It just sucks being punished for what others  did just because our time frames were similar even though our character was not.

32

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Jessie, I see where you're coming from. But there are some of us here, Matt, Morten and myself who I can't really imagine pulling something like that. Really, Morten already participated in one. I'd love to do one, if anybody would be interested. I do love the idea of a mediator, but I think the restriction based on membership might not be good. What if it was for full members only? From what I understand, people who were members here for a year or more have been the ones who have flaked out. There should absolutely be some kind of system of accountability, but I don't know what that might be. I was also raised to believe that when you sign up for an obligation, you better see it through.

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
          -Mark Twain

33

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I understand where the admins are coming from - they are trying to protect the members and feel responsible on behalf of the community and for Robby who is doing the screening I can understand your interest in not letting something like this happen - That is admireable of you all and appreciated. But then I do not think the community is to be held responsible for the acts og single persons.

I´d like to summarize some of the suggestions and then suggest that precautions should be:

1: A whip swap thread where the first page is a "contract" with a short description of what is agreed, what kind of whip and when i deadline for verified shipping. In this a mediator should be named who can do final verification

2: A build thread to monitor progress

3: "Proof of life" - pictures of the finished whip - taken next to a page where there is written a date and "whipswap for xxx" sent to the mediator.

4: when the mediator gives a go in the swap thread - we send

Its not bulletproof - and as Robby mentioned - there is still a small chance of loosing money - but in owuld consider the risk to be reduced. And it does not exclude any nor based on senority nor fanancials

34

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I do have to say, waiting a year might be a little too long imo. Iunno, I'm very very excited to be doing the annual whip swap if WB has one, but if we're doing the one year rule I'd have to wait for next year yikes

Nevertheless, I will respect the rules that you put down smile

Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

35

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I called and left a message for Robby to call me.  We will discuss it and come up with something that works for all.  Ron, Email in yo' box

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

36

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I havee to say, I really like Morten's idea. It seems concise and has a lot of steps that should be more than easy to follow. This will also allow people to track progress and keep the makers honest. If it looks like they're behind, people can call them out on it.

Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
          -Mark Twain

37

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I'm not too keen on the mediator idea.
It's hard enough to get two to communicate with out misunderstandings let alone three.

And what if the mediator is also doing a swap at the same time. Not only does he have to deal with the two he is moderating but two more in his own swap.
It complicates things a whole lot more.

We shouldn't even have to do this. It drives me nuts to have to.

Ron

It's ok if you disagree with me.
I can't force you to be right.

38

Re: New rules for whip swaps

You are exactly right Mr Ron. It's sad that a mans or womans word doesn't mean what it used to. Some people still live by a code and always will but in this day and age they are getting harder and harder to find. It is truly sad.

39

Re: New rules for whip swaps

I will talk about this tonight.  Ron, Robby and I came up with an idea that will work for all well.  I'm out of the house for the day and I won't write it all up on my phone.  This evening  smile

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

40

Re: New rules for whip swaps

Okay.  Home again home again...
Coffee.
Slippers.

So the Committee for Internal Affairs have discussed the situation this morning. What we have going on here at Whip Basics is:

1.  One-on-one private whip swaps.
2.  The dog shelter raffle.
3.  The yearly whip trade mystery swap. 

What we have decided is this:
The one-on-one whip swaps: Will not be the business or concern of the forum.  If anyone wants to do a swap, it will be arranged in private between the two people involved via email, PM, facebook--not here, and will be conducted as those two individuals see fit.  If anything happens, The forum will not be involved at all and it's all on you guys. If all is successful and someone wants to show off what they got, it can be shown in the roll call, but overall--it's not the forum's affair, or business.  I think the entire one-on one swap thread is obsolete at this point just to keep the drama out of the forum.

The dog shelter raffle: Will be held as it always has been.  Anyone can donate money or prizes and anyone can participate according to the prize level they have donated into. Rules otherwise are set by the organizer.  This is money for the puppies, so we want everyone involved if they want to help the pups.

The Annual Swip-Swap Whip Swap: After a lot of talking, this is the only swap that we will be adamant about the participants being members of Whip Basics for 1 full year.  This is both to assure a certain amount of accountability from the forum as a whole, but also because it gives the swapper a chance to take advantage of all the knowledge offered here on the forum, to practice your skill and to offer up the best of yourself. 
Since this is a surprise drawing situation, build threads cannot be a part of the deal; however, photographs of the package and shipping information can be offered as proof without giving away names.  This is the only change we felt was truly necessary, in an attempt to protect all involved as best as we can.

Once again, the forum can't protect the members from all the drama.  We can get mad, be disappointed, and support each other when things go wrong, but ultimately, there is no way that drama can be avoided completely.

We all understand that being screwed sucks, but that's life.  While Robby would love to see a smooth running oasis where everyone can be perfectly protected and safe, it's just not going to happen.  The bottom line is, we are all adults here.  When you agree to do something for someone, you do it come hell or high water. 
If something comes up (which can), communicate and keep communicating until the agreement is fulfilled.  It's when someone gives up and disappears that the problems arise. 

We learn this in kindergarten: Only you can take responsibility for your own actions.  Only you can be accountable for your own self.  Only you can prevent forest fires--and only American's will understand that last joke. 

http://i.imgur.com/EITfW5b.jpg

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management