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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Robby Amper wrote:

Unexpected?

I made my post in which I requested the pictures at June, 17.
You posted into the forum at:

June 21 - 1 post.
June 22 - 2 posts
June 23 - 5 posts

You knew about the deadline. And it wouldv'e been easy to post something like you did now. But you didn't.
So - No way - this was NOT unexpected. When you had problems - personal stuff or rants about your job -
there was always the time and the chance to post. Always! And you logged in yesterday, too. At 2pm and 10.47pm.
And now - 24 hours later - it is "unexpected"?

You talk about health problems. I think, I have to accept this. But I don't trust you anymore as I don't trust in Devin,
anymore. You too had seven month. And when we needed you to stand to your word, there was nothing. Stay in
the group. Keep posting. But you don't have to finish that whip. Well, of course you can do that. But I don't want
it as donation for the lottery. Sell it to someone. You gave your promise and all you say is: "Sorry for my absence"...?
You have your very own ways, Pokkis. And you have your principles. I know that very well. But this time you went too far.
What should have been a great thing for everyone is now rescued by the folks who jumped in for those who broke their
promises.

The Pokkis I know from a year ago wouldn't have done that. The Pokkis I see these days I don't like very much.
I've lost a big part of my reputation because of the folks who broke their word. You have lost your reputation because
of what you did.


Robby

Yes, I know when I've logged on and when I've posted. No need to tell me those things.

Maybe one of us misunderstood something, as I said "this is unexpected" about those who failed to do a whip at all. And on June 18th you posted:

Robby Amper wrote:

A delay is no problem, Rog. In fact it isn't a delay at all - we don't have a deadline for pictures smile
What wouldn't make me happy - if one of the folks who promised to donate a whip would not do it.
But it's not over until it's over, right? And there's plenty of time. For everyone... smile

Robby

I'm not in the mood for starting an argument, but "when we needed you to stand to your word, there was nothing" sounds like I've not done anything at all. Do you really mean it when you say that my whip is no longer welcome for the charity and there's no longer a trust between us?


- Pokkis

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

You are starting a quote war, now.

I do not trust in the folks who didn't bring up the pics at least at the day of the start of the ticket sale.
Perhaps they can reinstall it next year. Trust takes a long time to build up. It is destroyed in no time.
And why do ask me about the whip for the lottery? Didn't I say it all in my last post?

It is funny. You've read all the posts of all the folks who were completely disappointed. And now you try
to reduce it all on what I've said? To blame only me for the consequences you are going to take?
Rhetorical a good thing. Practical? No. Instead of quoting me, you should quote everything that was said, here.
And then ask all the others if they still trust in you. 

Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

I'm not starting a "quote war" -- whatever that is. And of course I'm not quoting everyone on a reply to you. It seems that you see me as someone who is intentionally bad while I'm not trying to sabotage the charity event or anything. I just want a straight answer to my question on my previous post.

You act like I'm angry at you while to me it seems that it's the other way round. This is confusing to me, since I didn't know there was a fight between us to begin with. So if my contribution is not welcome any more, just say it. And if I'm not welcome either, just say that too. It's obvious that we're not on the same wavelength right now so the best thing would be to correct that.


- Pokkis

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

I think Pokkis was referring to the bailout by several whipmakers, when he said it was "unexpected". I know I didn't expect that to happen.

With tensions still high from that incident, I don't know whether it's wise to pursue this debate. I think it could escalate quickly, when there isn't a need for it.

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Agreed David. There are a lot of pretty raw feelings going around WB at the moment and an open row or argument between us is NOT the way to go right now.

Think for yourself, act for everyone.

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Roger Tuson wrote:

...an open row or argument between us is NOT the way to go right now.

Especially not in a thread dedicated to the peaceful preservation of perfectly pettable puppies.

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Rows rarely accomplish anything positive. People remember the row for many years, when they've long forgotten what it was actually about.

'Less is often more!'

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Pokkis, I'm going to ask you to put yourself in Robby's shoes:  We publicized that there would be 9 whips in the lottery, and on opening day we only had confirmation and pics of 3.  So of course Robby had to cancel the lottery, he didn't know if the other whips were done or not- Yours is, Devin's isn't, we haven't heard from Chris or Guy at all...  And now he has people calling him a liar, on top of the people that hated him to begin with (again I reference the hacker) ... Would you not be angry, in his shoes?

Yaprimascharif, Yahasanna Hadisany, elafinas tabachu, Dari chalemy elasin!

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

I think, this is a communication issue more than an honesty issue, which can twist itself into an honesty issue quickly enough because the 2 go hand in hand, like it or not.  Pokkis, I think the point be made here, by Robby is the fact that officially, it is day 2 of when we were all supposed to be purchasing our tickets.  No word as to the status of your whip that you agreed to donate had been mentioned even after you were online yesterday during the official shutdown.  The fact of the matter is, Robby thought you stood him up as the others did (lied) and he had to deal with the consequences of being stood up yesterday, when the lottery was supposed to begin.  Frankly, you should have said something all last week to assure Robby that you were accountable.  You should have said something yesterday when you were online.  This isn't about who said what.  This is about who didn't say what until after the deadline.  You don't make arrangements for flowers and catering at a wedding the day of or the day after the wedding is to take place.  You communicate with everyone involved constantly, incessantly, to ensure that issues can be resolved beforehand.  Communication failed.  End of story.  If there is a next time, don't stay quiet again.  Post pictures, talk, update, and make yourself heard and be present.  If you can log in to talk about clipping toenails and trimming nose hairs, you can log in and say, "Hey, I am 3/4 of the way done with my whip and it will be ready to be sent out to the winner without a problem."  Then, take some pictures.  That's it.

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Tyler and Jessica, point well taken. The reason I didn't reply to everything that was going on in the forum was that I hadn't read everything that was posted while I was absent. I had no idea that this was all falling apart the way it was, and I was under the impression that a photo would be "a nice thing" for the promotion but not a mandatory thing.

So whatever it's worth, I didn't intentionally sabotage anything, and wasn't even really updated on what was going on. Can't say more than that for my defense.


- Pokkis

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

David Cross wrote:
Roger Tuson wrote:

...an open row or argument between us is NOT the way to go right now.

...dedicated to the peaceful preservation of perfectly pettable puppies.

The tarnish and damage to Robby's and WB's reputation cannot be undone by anything said here.  So, that can't be paused or fixed this minute or sorted out.  Everybody's under enough stress.  Robby has the meet and greet coming up plus a ton of work I'm sure, and Pokkis you haven't had an easy time, health and work from reading your posts.  This is perhaps none of my business, but you both have been kind to me, friendly and helpful. 
    Please pause here, let's put some much needed food in some very cute hungry bellies, and after that's taken care of, then ____ (y'all fill in the blank as y'all need to, that's where it's not my business). 
Please.  For the pups.

Inch by inch.

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Antti "Pokkis" Mäkinen wrote:

Tyler and Jessica, point well taken. The reason I didn't reply to everything that was going on in the forum was that I hadn't read everything that was posted while I was absent. I had no idea that this was all falling apart the way it was, and I was under the impression that a photo would be "a nice thing" for the promotion but not a mandatory thing.

So whatever it's worth, I didn't intentionally sabotage anything, and wasn't even really updated on what was going on. Can't say more than that for my defense.


- Pokkis

Thanks for seeing the other side of the story.  What is done is done.  I guess, when following a thread, I visit as soon as I have notification in my email that there has been a reply.  I work online, so this is easier for me maybe, but personally, I can see where it should have been more a priority by all involved.  Whatever.  If a person posts on it, they must be interested.  If interested, I can only assume that one would visit it often enough to keep updated.  My 2 cents have been cashed in.  Sadly, I see bridges being burned here.  The great news is, the situation has been resolved for the puppies and that's what this whole thing was all about. The rest, as my mom always says, will come out in the wash. Hopefully, the stains will fade.

Due to rising costs, dirty deeds are no longer done dirt cheap. 
                                                                                    ~Management

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Jessica nailed the whole thing. I think that no one here can imagine what I have to handle right now. The problems I have to solve. We've been under heavy attack not too long ago and I told you what kind of messages I received. It is easier to say that an argument is not the way to go than to handle that complete fucked up situation which I am in, right now. Trust me.

Tyler was right - perhaps some of you should try even for a minute to think how it is to be in my shoes these days. Anyway. I am completely fed up being called liar, idiot, prick, asshole and what else nice names people find for me in those emails. I will do whatever I can do to bring this to a good end. Then I'm out.


Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

This whole situation saddens me.

Speaking as someone with a number of focus and attention problems, I can certainly see how something like this can "get away" from someone.  Something that is half a year away can seem so vague as to feel like all the time in the world.  Easy to put it out of mind.  And then the deadline is right on top of you before you know it.

I say that not as a way to excuse anyone. But rather to illustrate why the magnitude of this commitment was so important.

This wasn't a contract of money exchanging hands for a product.  It was a contract of words and honor.

Robby has every right to upset and angry.  As do all of us who were excited by this opportunity to contribute.

I don't know that there are any "bad guys" here.  This forum has done a really decent job of weeding out the bad elements. What we are left with are some decent people who screwed up and let down a good man and a good cause.

Excuses don't really seem to have a place in this, because they all ring hollow against the backdrop of a half of a year of time.  I hope that those who bailed out can at least come in with an apology, rather than an excuse.  It won't fix anything, but at least it's a measure of acknowledging accountability.

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Robert Wurth wrote:

I hope that those who bailed out can at least come in with an apology, rather than an excuse.  It won't fix anything, but at least it's a measure of acknowledging accountability.

Spot on, Robert!

'Less is often more!'

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

Robert, you are absolutely right. All I've heard were excuses and defenses. And as long someone even doesn't accept for himself that he made a bad mistake, there can't be an honest apology. Of course it wouldn't change everything. But t least it would be a sign of character.

Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

77

Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

In all fairness, Devin said he was sorry and didn't give excuses. At least that's what seemed to happen on this thread, I can't say if there's anything else going on with private messages or email.


- Pokkis

78

Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

There were no emails and no PMs. But there were consequences. I just didn't make a big show out of it. And - believe me - you are not the only one.

And to draw a line, now. To say "I am sorry" doesn't mean that someone really understand what he did. I am sorry when I am late for an appointment. I am sorry if I spill some coffee on the table. But bringing down the whole lottery thing after having seven month of time and several reminders is nothing one can undo with "I am sorry". Or - what you wrote - "Point well taken". I think no one would accept a "I am sorry I killed your cat with my car. I didn't see her because I was on the phone". Does that sound like someone is really repentant and aware of what he did? It takes much more than that. Much more.

You asked if someone can imagine how you feel now. Did you ever ask yourself how all the others feel? Or I feel?
I have my principles - you demonstrated that you have yours, too. Anyway - it is over now. I am not resentful. 

And we - all of us - should look forward, now.

Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

I feel how I feel because I made a whip as I promised. Apparently that doesn't count as anything. I already told you that I only found out about this whole thing becoming a mess after it had happened, and after that, I have said I can imagine how you feel. You think I'm a heartless bastard and I want to hurt you? Really? You have helped and supported me more than once and that pisses me off so much that I want to intentionally destroy a charity event with your face on it, is that what you believe?

Yes, I understand how others feel about the charity event turning to a mess, I don't enjoy that fact any more than the rest of us here. I just want to be clear about this. I promised to make a whip, and I made a whip. And now I hear that I've broken a promise and I should be on my knees apologizing? Now how would you feel in my shoes?

And no, I don't want this to turn into a fight more than the rest of us here. If you want this to be forgotten, then so be it. Let's just let it go and never mention it again. Just understand that it's not my "principles" to break promises or ruin things without a shred of motive like the bad guys in Disney movies do. If you think I "demonstrated" those kind of principles, that's okay with me, you have a right for an opinion like the rest of us. I am not the resentful type either, but I would lie if I said that all this will not bother me in the future at all.


- Pokkis

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Re: The Lottery Prizes 2015!

What ever you think is right, Pokkis. What ever you think is right.

Robby

I have a screwdriver. I am Legend...